Blue Spring ?

[Roadrunner]

I called Haucks today and they said they have no more of the older style springs. So what is my next step, since I have the newer style in. Will the engagement at a higher RPM be hard on anything? Should I just keep the newer style in or should I just go back to stock?
Thanks,
Doug
93 VMax-4

[YAMMIEGOD 3:16]

DON,T GO BACK TO STOCK. THATS AWFUL DOUG. THAT ENGAGEMENT WON,T HURT ANYTHING, IT MAY BE MORE OF A HASSLE ON YOU. YOU NEED TO BE AT 4500. NOW LETS GET THIS CORRECT, THE NEWER BLUE PRIMARY SPRING HE OFFERS COIL BINDS ON THE 750 , CORRECT !! A OPTION FOR YA IS GET THE 800 VMAX COVER !! 3:16 (tony)

[Roadrunner]

Yammie,
I guess you will have to explain what you mean by an 800 cover? I have no clue about anything to do with the clutch. I guess it is time to learn about clutch.
So if I keep it this way for now, I won't hurt anything?
I don't know what a cover costs but I don't really need to tell the wife I have to get another big part for my sled, if it costs alot! (if you know what I mean?)
Doug

[YAMMIEGOD 3:16]

MAYBE YOU SHOULD JUST GO WITH STOCK SET-UP THAN AND CALL IT A DAY. LAST THING I WANT TO DO IS SEND YA OUT FOR PARTS. MEAN WHILE, LET ME DO SOME DIGGING FOR A DEFFERENT CLUTCH SPRING YOU CAN RUN !! 3:16 (tony)

[Roadrunner]

Yammie,
Hopefully Blue can sort of explain some of the things you have mentioned with me this weekend, if he makes it. As long as the parts don't cost, $500, I won't be sent to the garage to sleep!!! I want the sled to run GREAT, so I guess whatever it takes, guide me through it.
Thanks alot,
Doug

[vmax4rules]

Doug you should be able to pick up the "tall cover" that 3:16 is talking about for around $60-70 new from the dealer, once you get one you will have almost unlimited OEM spring choices right from Yamaha.

[AL P]

So whats the deal with a 95-800, does it have the short cover? or the tall one? man that sucks that hauck dont carry the short springs anymore. al p

[Reimond]

You can find different short cover springs from your dealer like Yellow-silver-yellow. (with more pre-load)
There is no problems with long OEM springs with short cover, i bet.
You could try white-silver-white from long ones.

Just my 0.02

[AL P]

Well, aparently there may be problems with some of the clutches, because ken did some extensive research on it, and had a great post about it. he measured out the clutch, and spring lenght when completly compressed ect. and concluded that the longer spring stacks up before the clutch closes all the way. plus, the engagemnt would also be effected by the differant lengh in springs. the longer one, would raise engagment. so it would effect the clutching recomandations by yammiegod. I thought it was also concluded that all the vmax 4`s had the short cover, but cant remember for sure, thats why I was asking. Now, if I remember correctly, vmax4rules i think it was, or somebody, posted info on a spring by dalton that was very close in engagement and rate. So it might be the only choice in getting very close to the original hauck blue spring. I`ve seen the yamaha spring list, and there is a few that are close, but i dont think they were as close as the dalton spring was. AL P

[Reimond]

Like i posted in old forum. Here is the picture where SRX clutch is pressed all way in with Hauck blue (5.1/4 round) if some one needs this info

[AL P]

What year SRX?

[Reimond]

Sorry, I forgot to mention that clutch is from -98 SRX with short cover

[Ike]

AL, I´ve used this to get my engagement up :

- stock weights ( part number 8BU-17605-00-00 ) 45,41 grams with the maximum 3 engagement shims under White-silver-White ( part number 90501-555J9 ) spring. Engagement is around 4600-4700 rpm´s.


But if you want go for the best, use YAmmiegod´s setup. All the reports of it are great. I´m still missing the helix on that one though.

Ike

[YAMMIEGOD 3:16]

VMAX 800 95-96-97 TAKES TALL COVER SPRINGS. SAME AS 700 SX, SRX, VIPER, SXr, AND PROBLEY RX-1. !! 3:16 (tony)

[YAMMIEGOD 3:16]

800 VMAX - 8BV-17630-00-00
98-02 SRX- 8DF-17630-00-00
!! 3:16 (tony)

[AL P]

Thanks guys, Now speaking of engagement shims, I`ve been wondering something about them. Do they just raise your engagement rpm, but once the secondary begines to open, they have no other effect? and do I have the theory correct, when i say that with the belt at rest (pre engagement rpm), using shims effectivley loosens the belt by making it ride deeper in the secondary? so the primary has to close farther before it grabs the belt? and the end result is lowering the gear ratio on take off? thanks, just trying to fully understand all the workings of the setup. AL

[RDL 93 V-MAX4]

I called two different dealers here in Canada for a 95 800 primary clutch cover and here were there prices. $120 - $121 and if you want to add a new bushing another $38 dollars. So if I ever want to do this upgrade I will be looking for used parts!

[vmax4rules]

RDL check the price of the newer tall cover it will bolt right on.

[AL P]

Alright guys, i`m still alittle concerned about the spring thing. Now, they just added the extra coil last year right? well I know some of you guys have been using the blue spring in your vmax 800`s longer than that. so you must have the shorter spring, so would`nt this newer longer spring raise the engagament more than what yammiegod recomended? if so? how much? I`m really not wanting to have it engage at 5000rpms or something that high? so has anyone used the newer longer spring in there stock 800 and know what the engagement is? Thanks

[Ike]

AL, about those shims. One shim rise the engagement about 100-200 rpm´s. Can´t remember for sure, but if our weather stays like this, I´ll ride next weekend and tell you after that.

Ike

[AL P]

ohh, and one more question or four?. anyone know off hand what the measurements of the stock spring is? How tall is it when not compressed at all? How tall is it when completly compressed? whats the OD of it? and what is the engagemnet, and rate of it? I cant find the dang spring chart I had anywhere, so sorry for all the questions. Thanks. AL

[Ike]

I hope this helps:

http://www.vmax4.com/tech10.htm

http://www.totallyamaha.com/snowmobiles/aaTECH/drivespecs/primary_springs.htm

Ike

[AL P]

Thanks Ike, what changed in the 98 YXR clutch springs? I seen it said pre 98, so just wondering what the differance is? thanks again. AL

[Reimond]

Al, Shims efect to engagement more than top rpm. Example raise engagement 300rpm -> top rpm goes 200rpm up.

[AL P]

I thought once the clutch opened, it would`nt matter about the shim?

[Ike]

Don´t know what changed in 98´.

Here is a another link to Bender´s stock engine clutching from the tech page :

http://www.vmax4.com/tech7.htm

They use the same white-silver-white what I used to rise the engagement, but they use 2 shims when I used 3.

Ike

[AL P]

Thanks For the links. Great info!! So whats the deal with the long springs on them charts? are they for my cover? or a even newer one? if I could use one of them, than the white-white-white would be the ticket, its a 45-2.25-119, pretty dang close to the hauck blue i would say? well depending on which hauck blue chart you look at. if ya notice, in the first link you posted to our site, it shows the hauck blue spring in blue lettering saying the total force is 110, but if you scroll down to where it shows the blue and other springs, it shows the blue as having 120 total force. so which is it? thanks again AL

[Ike]

Samueljackson has yellow-white-yellow , 45-2.5-128, spring (next one after w-w-w) and he has a collection of Hauck springs too (bought from Reimond). He can measure and test those. I´ll phone him and tell him to take pics too.

Ike

[Ike]

Thanks For the links. Great info!! So whats the deal with the long springs on them charts? are they for my cover? or a even newer one? if I could use one of them, than the white-white-white would be the ticket, its a 45-2.25-119, pretty dang close to the hauck blue i would say? well depending on which hauck blue chart you look at. if ya notice, in the first link you posted to our site, it shows the hauck blue spring in blue lettering saying the total force is 110, but if you scroll down to where it shows the blue and other springs, it shows the blue as having 120 total force. so which is it? thanks again AL

Just noticed that one too myself. ??? Anyone ?

Anyway, w-w-w is really close to the Blue from Hauck. And those springs cost a lot less than the Hauck ones. Atleast here they do.:banana_1:

[Ike]

AL, you have a -95 800, right?

Here are the alternative springs from the Parts catalog

http://tinypic.com/f0osoy.jpg

I hope this don´t confuse you too much...

Ike

[RDL 93 V-MAX4]

How about a black primary spring? I am not shure if it is that way cause it is old and used? I think stock on the 750 is yellow in colour right guys?

[vmax4rules]

The newer Yamaha springs are for the tall cover:
8DF-17630-00-00 PRIMARY SHEAVE CAP $77.64 US
This part number includes the bushing as well.

[YAMMIEGOD 3:16]

AL P. !! YOUR FINE TO USE HAUCK,S '' NEW BLUE '' PRIMARY SPRING. YOU HAVE A 95. WHICH CAME WITH A TALL COVER. PROBLEM IS PRE-95. THIS IS WHY HAUCK GAVE YA SHIMS BEFORE HE LENGTHIN THIS SPRING. THEY MOSTLY AFFECT ENGAGEMENT BUT ALSO WILL CHANGE TOTAL FORCE. 3:16 (tony)

[AL P]

why does the yamaha parts catolog, show all vmax 4`s as using the 8BV-1763-00-00 cap?, which is listed as taking a short spring. AL P

[YAMMIEGOD 3:16]

DUDE, THATS THE 800 PART NUMBER. TALL COVER SPRINGS WILL WORK ON A VMAX 800. THIS IS SAME PART NUMBER FOR SRX, SXr , VIPER SX etc. THEY ARE CALL '' TALL COVER PRIMARY SPRINGS ''. PRE 95 VMAX 4 92-93-94 750 PRINARY SHORT COVER PART # IS 88R-17631-01-00 !! 3:16 (tony)

[AL P]

sorry guys, I`m just getting confused by the yamaha micro thing. Here`s why.

93 vmax 4-750
88R-17631-01-00-cap
8AX-17611-00-00-primary fixed sheave
8BV-17630-00-00-primary sheave cap comp.
8DF-17630-00-00-primary sheave cap comp.

95 vmax 4-800
88R-17631-01-00-cap
8AX-17611-00-00-primary fixed sheave
8BV-17630-00-00-primary sheave comp.
8DF-17630-00-00-primary sheave comp.

this came directly from the yamaha micro thingy. so whats the deal, I dont get it. all vmax 4`s had this same part number list.

[VMAX535]

In Hauck's Cat. they list "Hauck Blue Primary 45, 2.25,120 HPRIBL Blue" So this is the one we should order for the 800cc.

VMAX535

[VMAX535]

The above post is actually a question. So is this the right spring number and description. I was kind of thrown when the discussion of short Vs long, old vs new was mentioned

[AL P]

On the yamaha spring chart that ike posted, it has a list for short springs for the 8BV cap and a long spring chart for 8DF caps. Now after looking at the yamaha parts catolog for the last few hours, and looking up just about every yamaha sled from 92 to 2005, from what i can tell, they started using the 8DF in 2001. So it would appear that the long spring was intended to be used on clutches that were put out after 2000. Not saying you could`nt use them in clutches that pre date that. but aparently, a stock pre 2001 clutch, would call for the short spring. three post above this one, is a list from the parts catolog for the 93 and 95 for example, i believe thier listing the 8DF as an option for replacing a stock comp.

[Roadrunner]

Tony,
Would that be the part # for the cover I would need, for my 93, that you put on here?
8BV-17630-00-00

Thanks, I would like to get this part and hopefully Blue can fix me up.
Doug

[Lewis]

Man, this is the most confusing shit ever, w,w,w and black and blue and green and yellow, jeez, too bad no one lives close to me to teach me all this... my dad's never owned a sled, so he doesn't know too much
:bum:
Lewis

[fastmax]

Lewis.. the springs are painted different colors for identification. Most springs just have small dots of paint on them. eg.. a www would mean it has 3 white dots of paint on it. Some companys such as hauck paint thier springs all one color for id. Check out the chart here and it will help you understand. The numbers represent how strong each spring is.
http://www.vmax4.com/tech10.htm :cool:
Keep asking questions.

[Aless750]

i just had a chat with a guy named Titus from hauck power sports, he just sait that yes they still make the blue spring for the short cover...is he full of shit??? one guy says yes the other says no... this is confusing...

[Roadrunner]

Aless750,
He is the same one I talked with and he said they didn't have any more. I called about 2 or 3 weeks ago.
Doug

[Aless750]

ok he came back to me saying that no they do not make the "short" one anymore but he also said that he never heard of any binding issues with the newer style spring and he was going to check on that.

[YAMMIEGOD 3:16]

GUYS, YOU WANT TO REALLY EASE YOUR MINE WITH THIS SO YOU CAN RUN HAUCKS BLUE ON THE 750VMAX, GET ONE OF THESE TALL COVER PRIMARY SPRINGS. NOW THERE WAS STILL CONFUSION WETHER A 800 COVER WOULD WORK. TALL COVER (SRX99-02, 600SX (r) 500-700SX (r) YOU PROBLEY CAN FINE THESE COVERS AT SALVALGE YARDS NOW. !! THIS SHOULD REST EVERYBODY MIND ON THE BIND PROBLEM WITH THE HAUCK BLUE.! 3:16 (tony)

[Aless750]

how about one of a 98 srx? will that work or is 99and up only?

[racer7x]

I believe 98 SRX will work too..

[VMAX535]

Spring pics. blue spring lenght = 3 9/16ths" orange spring = 4"

[bly123]

This is a pic of my Blue spring. It's older but it's like a powder blue. Is this the right spring? I got it from the VMax4 Classifieds. It's supposed to be a Hauck Blue spring. Is it?????

[Ken]

The two blue springs that are pictured above look like they are less than 5 coils. The one that I originally had trouble with was about 5 1/2 coils. Pat told me they added a 1/2 coil to cut down on spring breakage.

Here's the photo of my primary after a wide open run, I put on the Dayco because it made it easier to see the marker line. I had also loaded my weights with lead rivets in an attempt to get it to shift out. Prior to adding the blue spring I was getting full shift.

[Ken]

The uncompressed length of the spring is not the issue, it's the compressed length.

Here's the spring compressed in a vice, you can see the extra coil, just count the number of coils starting at either tail of the spring.

Something else to consider is that I believe the rate of the spring is not consistent when you get close to full coil bind. The last half turn of the vice handle that I made before I got to the point where I stopped in the photo was harder than the turns prior to that. I also could have went a bit further but I would have been putting on too much pressure.

[Ken]

My suggestion on this issue is:

1 - if your blue spring is less than 5 coils you should be fine.

2 - if your blue spring is more than 5 coils get a tall cover.

Or if you have a spring that is more than 5 coils run it in your short cover and confirm my findings. I know of one other person who had the same problem that I did. Hauck denied that there was a problem with the spring length but then replaced my springs with the shorter ones?

[bly123]

Any idea if the spring I pictured is an accual Hauck blue spring?

[Skinner]

Looks light in color compared to the perf trail set-ups I've used. Best thing to do is to put it in and see what your engagment is. The tach will tell the truth. Information you get from these guys at the dealerships depend on:
1) date
2) wind direction
3) barometric pressure
4) humidity
5) what activities were performed the night before

TO MANY VARIABLES

[bly123]

Is there a way to put the spring on with out removing the clutch?

[nate b]

you dont need to remove the clutch, just pop the 6 bolts off the cover.

I had the same issues as Ken last winter with the springs, dont bother running a newer blue spring in a short cover clutch,cuz it wont shift all the way out.
NATE

[Master of Faster]

Yeah, you can put the spring on by just unbolting the 6 cover bolts and removing the cover.

I just looked at my Hauck Blue and it is about 5-1/4 coils, the same as my Hauck Black and also a Dalton Blk/Blu which was intended for use with a tall cover, however, I have not had a problem with spring bind but I don't use any engagement
shims either.

nate beat me to it, lol

[Lewis]

Skinner, I think your joke went unnoticed, oh well, great minds think alike eh? lol
Lewis

[bly123]

I noticed the joke. But there is some truth it. Some guys get really detailed with there setups and can get that rediculus with there resons for why they have there setup the way it is. Good joke!!

[Ike]

Been there and heard it too. At the dealers some people are just full of BS... LOL

Ike

[ghodder]

bly123, I have the same Blue spring you pictured, and I bought mine directly from Hauck.

[Reimond]

Here is my useless info also :tease: :

5,1/4 round blue spring fully compressed in SRX clutch with short cover.

[bly123]

GHODDER, How does that spring work for you? Do you like it? I'm waiting till my first run in the snow with the sled before I install the blue spring. I have made too many upgrades already without seeing how they work on the trail. But I would like to install it as soon as I see that all my upgrades are working properly

[Ken]

Here is my useless info also :tease: :

5,1/4 round blue spring fully compressed in SRX clutch with short cover.


Reimond,

Is the spring on the left your blue spring? It's only 4 1/4 coils.


Ken

[Reimond]

Yes, It's Hauck blue with my custom spray paint (To confuse my racing mates) :)

Hmm... I calculate 5,1/4 in blue and orange. Black has 5,1/2

Reimond

[ghodder]

bly123, I'm running it on an 800 with 2 shims and weights loaded ... secondary twist set to 100 .... and I run PSI Quads .. the sled pulls like a freight train.

A few years ago I added pipes and this clutch setup before riding .. it was a completly different beast ... and I havn't looked back.

Clutching these sleds properly is the key, you won't be dissappointed.

[Ken]

Yes, It's Hauck blue with my custom spray paint (To confuse my racing mates) :)

Hmm... I calculate 5,1/4 in blue and orange. Black has 5,1/2

Reimond

You're right about the number of coils.....I must not have been seeing straight when I counted them.

[AL P]

how do you properly count the coils? would i start at the very end of one where it becomes real narrow (tip so to speak), and see how many complete circles there are?

[AL P]

I was typing as you posted ken. i got it.

[bly123]

Ok I put my blue spring in. it had the same amount of coils but it was taller. Any way the clutch kicks in a about 4500 to 4600. I believe thats what it should be for the blue spring. My question now is now that I have the right Spring and the right helix and the stock clutch wieghts how will this effect my shifting? I have the 800 pipes, the Boysen power reeds with the larger main jets. What should my top RPM be with this and do I chance over reving? On the stand It hit about 95 mph at around 7000 to 7500 RPM is this right??? Help. I was going to wait to put the spring on but I got bored.

[allarson]

that could maybe tell u that the spring is to long for the cover like the guys are talking about so get ur tall cover then u can use the longer springs and ur sheve will open all the way

[Reimond]

Bly123, Sled will newer run right rpm on stand. Shifts too fast...

[allarson]

thats true about the only thing u can do on the stand is check ur clutch engagement. and doing to many changes at one time is going to leave u lost as to what s working or not working

[Apsley Max]

I just bought a blue hauck spring directly from them, it is light blue, just like bly123's spring in his photo.But it is unlike Riemonds and kens dark blue one.And yes, it is for old short cover.When I tried it with my tall cover, engagement was @ 3500 .I put on my short cover, and checked it in press, no binding issues[with one shim also] .When I tried it out on grass, it engaged at 4500rpm.So here is for bly123's unanswered question about his light blue spring.Use short cover, and you will be fine.

[SRV540]

I take it this is the newest blue spring from Hauck I just bought this from them about 2 weeks ago, guess it wont be a problem for my 800 clutch.

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/3669/cimg1731uu1.jpg

[Ken]

The no longer made 4 3/4 coil spring, they must have started making them again, I wonder why?

[SRV540]

Ken thats just under 3 3/4" if its the length you meant?

[Ken]

SRV,

I'm referring to the number of coils in the spring. The one that I had trouble with was the improved Hauck Blue that had roughly 5 1/2 coils. When I contacted Hauck they told me that they added 1/2 a coil to the original (4 3/4 coil) Blue spring to cut down on breakage. I could not get it to fully shift out. They replaced my 5 1/2 coil spring with a 4 3/4 coil (old stock) but were no longer going to make the 4 3/4 coil spring. I guess that they are making them again, which is a good thing for Vmax-4 owners in my opinion.

Go back and have a look at post 51, 52, & 53 in this thread.

Ken

[Apsley Max]

The blue spring I recently bought is exactly like one in srv''s photo,4 3/4 coils , light blue though.He must have painted his.Funny thing , I bought orange , a black and the blue spring at same time, but the blue one is definately for short cover,and others need tall cover.go figure.