Racing History of the VMax 4 - tell it again. [Archive]

WildMax

12-10-2005, 12:53 AM

As I remember, I asked a question about the VMax4 on the oval track and why we don't see it there now. Someone had some great info on how the engine was developed for bikes but ended up in a snowmobile for some reason. After a couple of years of racing success with Tim Bender the VMax 4 was outlawed on the oval - I think???

WildMax

12-10-2005, 12:57 AM

Good assignment for one of you super dooper moderators - get a hold of Tim Bender or some other early racer and see if they would be willing to post or dictate a little write up of some of their racing memoirs with a Vmax4.

SRV540

12-10-2005, 01:11 AM

Well I would imagine the v4 originated from the TZ750 race bike.......man what a bike......Man what a sled!

http://www.jwoodandcompany.com/2004/daytona/TZ750-2a.jpg

WildMax

12-10-2005, 09:19 AM

Nice photo - yea, what a bike! Wasn't that one banned from the pro track because of the engine???

vmax4rules

12-10-2005, 09:53 AM

I think it was Bigbob that had the info.

noink

12-10-2005, 10:03 AM

team yamaha had King Kenny Roberts
he dominated most events with his bikes (unless he crashed or broke both rare)
then he tried a works bike for yamaha using this motor for dirt ovel flat track...
testing proved very good but racing tell all truths!
Roberts entered a couple of races qualified and again dominated the event!
tires for this class were not a problem, xr750 factory harleys easily finnished with a safe tire after a hard race.

roberts tire the hardest compound they could get to live the race came in on cords
he asked the AMA to bann the bike from future competition which they did as it was no contest citing it Never, hooked up on the track always spun and tire technology was not up to solving this problem and so yamaha withdrew from any other races claiming their interest in rider safety...when in fact roberts refused to ride anything with that style motor in a flat track bike!!!

yes it was banned
yes the bender got banned too
yes its yamaha on the EDGE again

WildMax

12-10-2005, 10:59 AM

That's interesting stuff. Thanks for posting it. When people notice the 4 cylinder 2 stroke engine and have never seen one, its kind of nice to be able to tell a little folk lore to go along with the view.

What was the reason the Bender sled was banned?

jeff242424

12-10-2005, 01:54 PM

so how did this motor end up in a snowmobile????? why did yamaha just not get rid of it????? i am greatful that it turned out the way it did.....I love my sled!!!!!!!!

Rick

4with4

12-10-2005, 04:43 PM

Yamaha seems to have a history of doing this. The Snoscoot and Snosport engines were originally from the scooters of the time. The Vmax4 engine design came from the TZ750 and now the RX1 and Apex and Attack engines came from the R1 street bike. They've even got the R1 design engine in their personal watercrafts and jet drive boats.

Ian

Awsum O

12-12-2005, 03:04 AM

The Vmax4 engine is based on a TZ750 engine. Not just pulled out of a streetbike and jammed in. Just similar in design. Not to mention the TZ pulled something like 180hp. Like a lot of Yamaha's other creations, many engines are based on previous success but not a complete photocopy. Much the same as a 5.0L (302ci) Mustang, 5.0L (302ci) pickup, 5.0L (302ci) Crown Victoria....etc, etc, etc. Very similar, yet very different.

KING OF THE LAKE

12-12-2005, 01:19 PM

GUYS, THE VMAX 4 HAD A SLOW START TO OVAL RACING WHEN TIM BENDER BROUGHT IT OUT DUE TO WEIGHT AND RELIABILITY OF THE ENGINE THRU THE EXTENSIVE ENGINE MODS. BUT AFTER MUCH TESTING IN ALASKA BENDER GOT IT FIGURED OUT AND STARTED TO KICK EVEYONES ARSE ON THE OVALS.I FOLLOWED OVAL RACING CLOSE THRU THE MID NINETYS TILL SKI-DOO AND POLARIS GOT A RULE IMPLEMENTED FOR THE FORMULA 3 CLASS TO LIMIT THEM TO 600 CC MAX STARTING WITH ANY PRODUCTION ENGINE CONFIGURATION. SKI DOO RELEASED ITS FORMULA 3 SLED AND POLARIS RESLEEVED THER 650 ENGINES DOWN TO 600 SINCE THEY HAD THE OLD 600 TRIPPLE TECH. THIS LEFT YAMAHA AT A HUGE DISADVANTAGE BECAUSE IT WAS SO HARD TO COMPETE WITH THE V4 CUT DOWN TO A 600 QUAD, SO THEY BAILED. IT WAS ABOUT POLITICS WHICH BASICALLY STARTED THE DEMISE OF OVAL RACING AS WE KNOW IT TODAY. THE JAPS GOT ON TOP WITH BENDERS HELP AND OTHERS DIDNT LIKE IT SO THEY CHANGED THE RULES. JUST A BUNCH OF CRAP!!!!! I TALKED TO TIM BENDER ONCE AT EAGLE RIVER,WI AND ANTIGO ,WI WHEN HE RACED THE QUAD AND HE TOLD ME THE MOD QUAD HE RACED STARTED OUT AT ABOUT 210 HP BUT WOULDNT LIVE SO THEY DETUNED TO ABOUT 190-195. 30-40 BETTER THAN THE COMPETITION. THAT THEY DIDNT LIKE. I HAD VIDEO OF BENDER PASSING 3 SLEDS DOWN THE BACKSTRETCH AT ANTIGO,WI TRACK [1/2 MILE LENGTH] ON THE FIRST LAP OF RACE THEN WATCH HIM PULL TO 1/2 LAP LEAD OVER 3RD PLACE - 2ND PLACE WAS HIS TEAMMATE RICK HAEG ON THE OTHER QUAD. JON BERNATLIO OF ILL. NOW OWNS TIMS QUAD. ITS AN AWSOME MACHINE. I WISH I HAD KEPT THAT VIDEO TO SHOW YOU GUYS-IT WOULD GIVE YOU A BIG STIFFY AS I ALWAYS GAVE ME ONE. TRUE PREFORMANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! KING OF THE LAKE

YAMMIEGOD 3:16

12-12-2005, 08:11 PM

SIMILIAR STORIE IS WHAT HAPPENED TO MIKE KNAPP ON TAR !! WHEN YOU LOOK BACK AT THE SHIT THAT SKIDOO, POLARIS, AND CAT HAVE PULLED IN SNOWMOBILE RACING. YAMAHA HAS ALWAYS BEEN SCREWD. ISR WAS PAID OFF MANY TIMES ALL THE WAY BACK TO OUTLAWING THE 77 SRX. CAT AND SKIDOO HAVE BEEN ALLOWED TO RUN CHEATER SLEDS FOR YEARS IN STOCK CLASSES AND GET AWAY WITH IT BECAUSE THEIR PAID OFF. 3:16 (tony)

Lewis

12-13-2005, 06:13 PM

Is this paying off thing similar to the thing you guys were talking about about Ski-doo trying to pull something recently, but getting caught?
This stuff is really interesting, learn something new every day :)
Lewis

YAMMIEGOD 3:16

12-13-2005, 08:41 PM

BASISLY DUDE IS SKIDOO, CAT , AND POLARIS , HAVE SO MUCH SAY AND INFLUENCE ON RULES, ENGINE SIZE, SAFTEY, HORSEPOWER etc. ITS A NO BRAINER. ALSO THESE BRANDS PARTICPANT IN ALL FORMS OF RACING THATS GOVERNED BY ISR SUCH AS SNO-CROSS, GRASS DRAGS, OVALS, ICE DRAGS, WATER CROSS, TAR AJUST A EXAMPLE. THE RULES COMITEE IS MADE UP OF GUYS THAT WORK FOR CAT, POLARIS, SKIDOO.YOU MAY THINK I AM CRYING HERE, BUT I HAVE SEEN THIS SINCE THE LATE SEVENTIES. 3:16 (tony)

Lewis

12-13-2005, 08:52 PM

That's really too bad, although in the big picture it doesn't matter, because we don't need to win their staged races, to know we can beat them eh? :D:D:D
Lewis

mark the shark

12-15-2005, 07:34 PM

I see that doesn't keep YAMMIEGOD, Agdorny, and Hauck from going out and kicking everybody's asses on their 10 year old "tanks". I think politics has a lot to do with why Yamaha hasn't really pursued snocross. Yamaha comes out with a sled that will kill everybody else, so they change the rules. How much more proof do we need that the other guys are scared of Yamaha technology?
KING OF THE LAKE - You reminded me of watching the I-500 snowmobile race many many years ago when Polaris came out with a new sled. It's been many years and I don't really know what model it was, maybe something like the 650 TX???? They threw the green flag and this guy just left everybody behind. He had lapped the entire field about 5 laps into the race and cruised from there. It was totally awesome to watch. I wish you still had your video to post, also.
Shark

noink

12-15-2005, 09:24 PM

i put this on all my bikes tz250-750

YAMAHAHA...we ALWAYS get the last phucking laugh!!!

and its true

82SRX500

12-29-2005, 08:01 PM

Thought I would post a couple pictures in case some of you did not see them before. I have the #19 Bender Vmax 4 and I am currently restoring the #91 Mike Sackett Vmax 4. The picture of the #91 is at the shipping terminal three weeks ago. Both sleds were shipped down to me in IL from Alaska where they stored and raced.

If anyone has any pictures 35mm, Polaroid, or Videos VHS, I very much would like to copy them for my archive.

Thanks,

Jon

luckyone

04-16-2007, 10:44 PM

I HAVE A TAPE WITH BENDER AND SACKETT RACING I WILL LOOK FOR IT. THEM WERE THE BADDEST F111 SLEDS I EVER HAD THE PLEASURE OF WATCHING! NOTHIN COULD TOUCH THEM WHEN THEY HAD THEM RUNNIN RIGHT!TIM LOOKED PRETTY TIRED BY RACE END. HE HAD HIS HANDS FULL WITH THAT BEAST!

killerklown

04-17-2007, 08:41 AM

Be prepared to make more copies...I'm sue allot of us would be willing to buy tapes, or have them transfered to digital?

JAMIE

04-17-2007, 06:57 PM

luckyone, that would be an awesome find for sure..!

the Wolfman

04-17-2007, 09:20 PM

Please count me in on that digital transfer Luckyone...I'd love to see those again..

Ike

04-18-2007, 12:19 AM

I would love also to see them.

Ike

luckyone

04-18-2007, 06:06 AM

i will dig thru the closet this weekend

vmax4rules

04-18-2007, 08:52 AM

Count me in as well.

luckyone

04-21-2007, 03:34 PM

found it, and played it its eagle river i need to figure how to transfer to a disc. i will get back to you's soon

mark the shark

04-22-2007, 02:58 AM

4with4

04-22-2007, 11:07 AM

Luckyone. There are a couple ways you can transfer that tape to digital. I'm assuming it's a VHS? If you have a digital video camera, you can use it's brain as the translater and run from VHS through the camera to the DVD burner on your computer via a USB port. If your camera is capable of this, the directions will be in your owners manual. There are machines that also have VHS and DVD recording capabilities. I have one and it works great but, the disc only plays in that machine, and not a regular DVD, at least not mine and it's a mid range Pioneer unit that's just over 3 years old.
Hope some of this helps with your quest.

Ian

luckyone

04-22-2007, 12:02 PM

82SRX500

05-13-2007, 11:09 AM

I'd like to see the video, too.

Here's some stuff that I saved. If I remember correctly, it was originally posted on the site by Ken, maybe before we switched servers. I looked around a little and didn't see it, so here it is.

Shark

Shark, do you have these scan's available in a size that can be read? Right now they are pretty blurry and I can not read them. Could you email me readable scans. toizrit@comcast.net or fax readable copies to: 847-697-3273?

Thanks,

Jon

82SRX500

05-13-2007, 11:11 AM

thanks for the info 4with4, im putting my best person on it,my daughter she is the electronic brainiac in the family. when she gets home today that will be her task also going to get the original tape to copy, me and a friend of mine went halves on it and itook a copy of it and never watched it so the quality is not all that great so just bear with me and i will have this real soon!sorry for the wait all!

Did you ever get this tape converted. If you would like, you could send me the tape and I can convert the VHS to DVD. I have a burner. I also am the person who owns both sleds #19 and #91 and I would very much like to get a copy of this video. Phone: 847-289-1050

Thanks,

Jon Bertolino

82SRX500

05-13-2007, 11:22 AM

Guys, a gentlemen was kind enough to scan some images he had taken of the #19 and #91 racing onto a disc and mail to me. Here are a couple of the super cool pictures of the sleds racing.

Jon Bertolino

Ike

05-13-2007, 01:35 PM

Any way I could get a copy? Jon...

Still interested here---

Ike

mark the shark

05-14-2007, 02:33 AM

82SRX500 - Sorry, this is the original size that the pictures were when I copied them off this site. I just tried resizing them with a photo editor, but even blowing them way up didn't make much difference. You should be able to put your pointer on a picture and right click, then "open image" or "save image" to your computer, then magnify them on your screen.

Shark

fastmax

05-14-2007, 11:37 AM

Here is a couple of #19 pics, Quite an article in the 1993 Sno Goer mag :clap: Check out the "wrapped" pipes.

turbogriesbach

05-14-2007, 08:04 PM

ike, pm me your address. I took the pic's and can burn you a cd. Wish they were a little clearer, That was one of my early cameras, I'm way better now. Hopper

turbogriesbach

05-14-2007, 08:29 PM

Jon, how's the restoreration on the 91 going? Also how's the book sales going? Glad you could use some of my pic's in your book. thanks Hopper

Ike

05-15-2007, 01:33 PM

turbogriesbach, PM sent.

Ike

82SRX500

05-16-2007, 08:16 PM

Jon, how's the restoreration on the 91 going? Also how's the book sales going? Glad you could use some of my pic's in your book. thanks Hopper

The #91 is coming along nicely. However, the past bit of time has been spent converting the #19 back to a 4 cylinder from the 3 cylinder that Bender created out of his winning motor. The #19 will be on display at the Snowmobile Hall of Fame Round Up vintage show in St. Germain, WI next weekend (memorial weekend) if anyone would like to stop by and view it.

THe #91 is coming along though. The front end is basically done for the refabrication that needed to be done. Engine is now being reassembled. It will be a slow process to rebuild this sled but hopefully by the end of summer it will be done. Hopefully I will be able to get some pictures of the progress next week to show everyone.

Jon

82SRX500

05-16-2007, 08:18 PM

Jon, how's the restoreration on the 91 going? Also how's the book sales going? Glad you could use some of my pic's in your book. thanks Hopper

Forgot to mention, the book sales are going nicely. I will be signing them and selling them at the Snowmobile Hall of Fame show. The FIII pictures you sent me were only used on the Webpage: www.toizrit.com/yamahabook.htm (http://www.toizrit.com/yamahabook.htm) under Yamaha Pride. Print clarity prohibited them from being used in the book. Bummer.

Jon

SamueLJackson

05-16-2007, 11:56 PM

The book- how I can get one?

-sami-

82SRX500

05-18-2007, 07:58 PM

The book- how I can get one?

-sami-

If any of you wish to buy the 40th Anniversary of the Yamaha snowmobile you can buy them direct from me the author at: www.toizrit.com/yamahabook.htm (http://www.toizrit.com/yamahabook.htm)

Thanks,

Jon

luckyone

05-20-2007, 12:39 PM

sorry it s takin so long to get back to you all, i have had some issues come up that needed my attention now first off 4with4 i went out and bought a new vcr to dvd recorder and i had the same problem it would only play in the same machine until i read you have to finalize the recorded disc so read in your manual how to finalize the disc then it will play in all dvd players. jon i called and left my number if you want to get a hold of me. the book is excellent! bought it from my local dealer the other day ,good job!as i type the vid is being burnt . this is a copied version of the original tape three of us bought back then so quality is not all that good. tried to get a hold of the original but trying to get a hold of the owner of the tape is nearly impossible!anyway, next feat will be transfering to my computer then to this site so just be patient a little longer please. thanks

luckyone

05-25-2007, 11:06 AM

anyone have any ideas to get it downloaded on this site? i cant figure out how to download it to my computer but it is on dvd the only thing the computer allows me to do is store it in a folder but is in like 9 seperate sub folders within a folder. i must need to purchase a separate program or something. anyone?

SamueLJackson

05-30-2007, 03:42 AM

JON I`ve read your 40 th anniversary book its sooooooo :clap: interesting. My friend who is our national snowmobile magazine (MK-LEHTI) reporter has it. Yamaha guys at -07 snowshoot gave it to him.

Awesome piece of Yammie history and lot of pics of rare racing yamahas.

Everyone one who has change ------>read it

-sami:flagge_fi

allarson

10-02-2007, 12:09 PM

well guess what they have to deal with the rx1 and it,s not going away anytime soon along with the 4 stroke turboed phazer.

mark the shark

10-02-2007, 07:16 PM

luckyone - Sounds like you need to convert your DVD to an .iso image. MagicISO will do that: http://www.magiciso.com/ I'm sure there are a lot of programs that will do it, some of them free. The .iso image can be uploaded to rapidshare, or any site like that, or maybe Dean can put it up here.

Shark

Jim Jessup

01-07-2008, 04:28 PM

Not sure if any of you guys have seen this video yet?
http://s150.photobucket.com/albums/s89/ramblnman/?action=view&current=VTS_01_1_NEW-1.flv

vmax4rules

01-07-2008, 04:49 PM

Not sure if any of you guys have seen this video yet?
http://s150.photobucket.com/albums/s89/ramblnman/?action=view&current=VTS_01_1_NEW-1.flv

Yes it's already on the site, thanks for the effort.
Post anything else you come across, you never know what will be new to us.
http://vmax4.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=4711

Maxmen

02-07-2009, 01:00 AM

Well I would imagine the v4 originated from the TZ750 race bike.......man what a bike......Man what a sled!

http://www.jwoodandcompany.com/2004/daytona/TZ750-2a.jpg

My thanks to Wildmax for reviving this thread.
As a former car builder & drag racer, Yamaha's history & product evolution is facinating to me.
I do have a little bit to add to the history of the TZ750 in Canada.
A friend and fellow tool shop owner, Robin Teeling, (Teeling Metal Specialties, Mildmay Ont.) was a member of Yamaha 's Canadian Motocross team in the early 70's.
He also did some flat track racing for them during that era. A fellow team member of Robin's, John Bance, managed to convince Yamaha to sell him one of the 7 or so TZ750's which were alloted to the Canadian teams, for the paltry sum of 12 grand (a small fortune in 73)!! As the story goes John had already lined up the sale of the bike in his native England for OVER 100 GRAND!! Needless to say Yamaha was furious over the sale & export of the bike to England but, it was too late by then to recover it. John bought his 1st home with the proceeds!
Robin told me that the bike was truely a deathtrap of a powerhouse, especially on dirt.
Cheers.
paul

portmeister

01-24-2010, 05:26 PM

Jon: I don't know what happened of the pictures I sent you, I also posted some of them here, I will post some more that I have. I took quite a few pictures of the #19 & 91 sled before we put the decals on them out at Brainerd for the first Race. We tested out @ Gull lake and thats where I took the Pictures. I also gave Tim a complets copy of them when I had them developed.