What is the best all around suspension upgrade?

[tyler540]

i dont know if this will start an arguement or not but here's how it goes...

im looking to upgrade my beat stock skid on my 93 to something with some actual shocks and travel... i also want to run an 121x15x1 track with 96 studs (maybe 144)... my main goal is to be able to trail ride and smoke f7's in open fields and no winter maintance roads... i weigh about 155lbs...

last year with the stock setup i was flying right along in the fields but everyone would run away from me when we got into the high traffic mogeled parts... also i was having a heck of a time actually putting the power down with out spinning...

i have been looking for a 96 XT skid since the last ride of the season but havent got much luck... i have found a few but either they are totally shot or they dont have shocks or the person wants over 300 bucks for them plus shipping...

i have a rx1 skid available to me for free but it is missing one shock and has a couple of other parts robbed off of it... i could proably find the missing pieces and get it all tight for a decent price but im not sure if it is really what i want or not...

originally i wanted the 96 xt because it is both proaction plus and wide enough to fit into the 94 vmx740 tunnel without spacers... but now im begining to think maybe it would actually be better to have some solid bars of aluminium on the tunnel to stiffen it up and have less HP eating flex

i just got done looking on ebay and there are TON of polaris xtra10's for what seems like cheaper (not sure what it would cost to make them 100% tight)... maybe i should just get on of them instead of a proaction?? but then i remember reading an article that said the yamaha skid was the best out there (when they were all coming on the scene in the 90's) http://www.snowgoer.com/output.cfm?id=2400445

honestly i havent really looked at the ski doo sc-10's or whatever they are called but i dont see alot of people talking about them so it must not really be the way to go

sure the FAST sids are supposed to be the very best money can buy... but the key word there is MONEY... and although i spend more money on my sleds than i should i still have to get a damn nice track and therefore want to save about the same amount of money for that....

here is probably the part where you guys are going to tell me im nutz... id like to get a tight, 100% solid skid for about $250 ($300tops) including shipping... whether this means i buy a junk skid and put a bunch of parts into it or i buy a perfect one and dont put anything into it

so back to the original question: what skid is best for a 155lb, 27 year old that wants to hands down smoke everything in his town thru the feilds, unplowed roads, AND moguls... (it really irriatated me to have to back down from a thundercat last year)

[Geiger]

I weigh 160 lbs, pretty close to you. last year i replaced the suspension from my 93 with a proaction from an rx-1, the suspension from my 96 with a proactive from a vector, and bought a 92 w/ a fast m10.
i liked the proactive skid more than the other two, but the proactive was a close second. Both were easy to tune in to my style, handled great, hooked great, and i didnt notice any loss in top end. The m10 however, couldnt get the same traction off the line and really hurt top speed. Although it was the most plush riding, it made me unsure when riding it, kind of a "dead" feel.
Dollar for dollar, i liked the newer proaction, very cheap, easy to find, easy to tune, and had a great ride.
I did prefer the proactive vector suspension the most though, however i picked it up really cheap. they normally run between $5-700, which is more than a used m10.

[allarson]

i would stay away from the m10 if ur worried about speed and most importantly weight transfer but if u want total ride comfort and take the big hits m10 all the way and i can say this cause i got one , they are shity for weight transfer but u will not beat them on ride. this skid works real well in the yami, its light and durable and takes good bump ride and great traction set up proper it will do a good job on weight transfer and it is out of a 2001 1000 mountain cats 151 which i run under a 153 track with the big 8 inch wheel kit back axle ona 2003 700 mountain max. it gives good top end allso. at 2 300 u will not buy much 400 to 650 will buy u a good skid u can bolt in and ride, my 2 cents AL

[mark the shark]

I put an '03 RX-1 skid in mine because I wanted to stick with Yamaha parts. Yamaha technology is proven, so why mess with it? The skid I got was a takeoff from a brand new sled, I don't think it had any miles on it, so the shocks, bushings, etc. were good. Got it off ebay for around $325. The only thing I changed was I made some adapters so I could put the original Vmax-4 bogie wheels on it instead of keeping the plastic wheels that were on it. Sliders, bushings, bogie wheels, etc. are readily available from a Yamaha dealer or most any parts outlet. I bought bags of each size plastic bushing for the skid just to have them on hand because they wear out. If you blow a slider on your M-10 when you're on a trip out in the boonies are you going to be able to find one easily? I doubt it. Having aluminum reinforcement bars as spacers in the tunnel is a great idea, especially if you're going to be running through fields and moguls. I believe you need more studs. With the horsepower we're running it's recommended by all of the manufacturers to have at least 192 studs, some guys run 244. You probably also need a taller lug track than the stock one to run in the fields and unplowed roads. That will help with the traction. The ride with the proaction is much better on my back, but I did notice that the skis want to "bicycle" going around corners because of the higher center of gravity, (plus I weigh around 235). Here are some before and after pictures of my sled: http://www.vmax4.com/vbulletin/album.php?albumid=31

Shark

[Naskram]

...............................unless you have/accsess to several vmax4s with different skids set up correctly for you it will be hard to put one over the other?

l have a Polaris X10 skid on my 750, its like night and day improvement for me, and way way better than the stock 1996 Vmax 600 & 800 that i have.

BUT the only time i ride on a trail is to get to the mountain, so top speed isnt all that important, you can 'make it up' to a point with your gearing. lt also took a fair amount of time to set it up for my riding, theres alot more to a good suspention than just a good skid.

[opsled]

so back to the original question: what skid is best for a 155lb, 27 year old that wants to hands down smoke everything in his town thru the feilds, unplowed roads, AND moguls... (it really irriatated me to have to back down from a thundercat last year)

T'is an unachievable task......................

I understand those who ride in continual conditions that make the stock Vmax-4 skid/track unusable (deep powder, mountains, ???, ??? (whatever) needing to make a change so-as to make the sled usable, buuuuuuuuut.............

Beyond that? All I can say is, 27???, 155???, DUDE!!!!, GRAB THAT BULL YOU BOUGHT!!!, LEARN WHAT IT CAN!!!!!! DO, LEARN HOW TO MAKE IT DO WHAT IT CAN...., TEACH YOURSELF HOW TO KEEP UP WITH THE BULL!!! then GRAB YOUR BOYS and RIDE THAT EFFFFER!!!!

It doesn't sound to me like your riding conditions are that much different from what we have here in SE Cheeze Land. At 49 1/2 years young, 170lbs (soaking wet with sweat, both my marbles in play and sportin my best woody) there ain't much (no NOTHIN) that can run away and hide from this old Norski on his 92. Beat??? sure, Disgraced???, hasn't happened.

I can still phisically take it and will gladly get beat in the bumps for a chance at redemtion when things smooth out (all ya gotta do is keep within gun range until ya gotta straight shot) cuz I don't care what you're ridin, if it's deep or bumpy you're goin slooooooow.

A Vmax-4 isn't a mini van or some sort of crossover. It doesn't need reverse, a 2 up seat, trailer hitch or a cushyyyyy ride.

It is the LS6 Corvette or Hemi Cuda of snowmobiles.

It is made to go FAST!!!, sound FAST!!! and look COOL!!! whilst your doin what it does best (show off).

Tyler, mabey ya shoulda bough an easier sled....


opsled

PS, This is what I think but I am truely just effin with ya. lol!!!!

[tyler540]

first off guys thanks for all the input.... problem is, even tho i know there is no straight answer, im not sure i have made up my mind anymore hahaha....

geiger- you have a typo in your second statement "i liked the proactive skid more than the other two, but the proactive was a close second." i think you meant to say proactive and proaction repectively?? for what you say it makes me want to just find the few parts that were raped off of the rx1 skid i already have and run that... i am used to beating and banging and dont have to be riding on a cloud to enjoy myself... as a matter of fact you (i) cant go fast unless i can feel the bumps, what do they call that? postive feedback?

allarson- i dont really need to go 130mph just as long as i can get to 100 fast... i am however worried about weight transfer (or at least it think i should be) weighing what i do im usually hanging off the back (of my 84 vmax540) in a drag race against my uncles equal sled (86 vmax540).... he of course beats me out of the hole and then i pull (slowly) past him, probably 250 yards later.... we switch sleds and get the same outcome.... only thing i can figure is that his 20 or so lbs is making all the difference... so i think i really need the transfer of the proaction... besides the fast skid is above my price range.... i think i should be able to get both for $300 a piece if i am patient and keep looking... deals are everywhere its just about being the first person to find them... its only july i have a little bit of time yet....

mark the shark- your the second person chiming in with the rx1 skid, which makes me lean more towards it... also the fact that you got a take off for $325 backs up my last reply to allason... im curious to know what you had to change to run the standard metal boogies... we have a ton of good ones laying around from the various pro-LINK sleds we have parted... but im not sure i completely agree with you on the number of studs, studs arent going to do a thing in the feilds and wooded trails that i mostly ride... studs IMO ar mainly for keeping the back in the back and the front in the front when nailing the brakes on ice..... sure they help you acellerate on hard pack or ice but really i dont really line up against people in those conditions... i too figure ill need a taller track than the (stock?) 3/4" track thats why i figure a good agressive 1" would be good.... are you saying i should go more along the lines of 1.25" i dont want to have to drop the skid out tooooo much for clearance and then have the back jacked way up.... it does seem like 1.25 tracks are easier to come by so that mich be what i settle with, that and 1.5" trail studs...... when i talk about my feilds i generally mean about 1500 feet of 10" "medium" packed snow... and when i say "unplowed roads" that is what you guys proably think of as trails(they get beat down and unless it has just snowed they are sometimes next to hardpack, last year we had alot of issues with moguls in the slow down spots)

marksan- i think your probably right, im sure i'll like anything better than the stock junk with blown shocks i have now! hahahaha are you saying the polaris skid is better than your 96 vmax XT? or is it just a standard 600? cause there is a big difference there... im certainly not riding any mountains here in NW PA and the more i type this the more i lean towards the rx 1 skid... bu tthe polaris ones are ALL OVER ebay and seem to be cheaper

and now for opsled hahaha--- are you saying it is impossible to beat everything thru all three fields, roads, and moguls? if that the case then how about just beating them thru the fields and roads and being able to keep up while not pissing blood or breaking my neck in the moguls? hahaha are you saying to just ride it the way it is and adjust myself to it? im sorta confused... i know what it can do and im certianly not afraid to leave the WOT until i run out of room... you say you can still physically take the bump with your stock skid? well then yours must not be the junk that i have, because (seriously) 99% of my travel is my butt in the seat foam and its tossing the sled off the trails and into deep snow where i submarine and therefore have a hell of a time keeping up.... its not that i cant ride either, i can certainly do that.... i think you might be holding some kind of grudge from way back when i asked about putting reverse on a vmax4... im over that now, ive just accepted the fact that it takes 2 men and a boy to get these babies unstuck or turned around.... im not sure what the heck you meant by the "shoulda bought an easier sled" thing... so i guess i just let it go?

guess i better hit submit before i lose this hahaha ill be back to continue after i get some work done around here....

[Geiger]

yes the proaction was a very close second. and i agree with you on the "positive feedback"- its a good thing
parts are easy and cheap to find for the rx1 skid. sounds like a good idea to me

[mark the shark]

tyler540 - Yeah, studs aren't going to do you much good if you're only running in fields and unplowed roads. I was just thinking if you ever go out on a lake or hardpack. I blew a track on a snowmobile trip many years ago, replaced it, but didn't bother to stud it. I just wanted to make it through the trip before I spent the time to do it. I'll never ride without studs again, the back end was all over the place! :3speechle A 1" or 1.25" lug track would probably work out better for you.

As far as the wheels, it's been a long time since I put the suspension on. There was something about the difference in the bearing diameters, or the spacing from the rails, I don't really remember. I asked one of the lathe hands at work to turn me some spacers and I've got a bag of them in the trailer. If you decide to go with the ProAction, I can take pictures and get you some dimensions. You can see in my picture that the front two wheels are the original aluminum, I didn't replace the plastic ones on the back. Maybe someday. I also put the marginal snow wheel kit at the bend in the rails.

Shark

[tyler540]

yeah we dont have any lakes or rivers(that freeze) in NW PA... just a ton of fields and short thru skips thru the woods between them... and occasionally we will get on a no winter maintantence road but they never get packed down too too hard... i have 96 woodys megabite studs in my 540 with 6in carbides on front and it rides like it is on rails... im thinking ill just run 96 with a 1.25 track... i had planned on running 1" but im not seeing many as compared to the 1.25... i guess ill figure out what the different is in wheels when i get there....

now on the rx1 skid i plan on using... i know it is missing on of the shocks and some other misc parts.... should i be looking for a stock rx1 shock or should i ideally be looking for 2 shocks off of some other proaction? anyone have any input on this? i know of some guys in town that can rebuild shocks for a good price but i dont know if they would have any idea how to revalve them to any kind of weight or riding style

[opsled]

yeah we dont have any lakes or rivers(that freeze) in NW PA...

NO LAKES? NO RIVERS!!!?

Dude I'm sorry I bashed ya so hard. Our trails sound like they are similar to yours but we HAVE!!! lakes and one of the BEST!!! rivers around. Untill you have run a Vmax-4 on a 35 mile (thumb to the bars) up a FROZEN!!! river with all the straights, twists, turns, sweeps, rights, lefts, hairpins, ect, ect... You will not understand what I mean about "Going FAST". If not for the conditions I have available to me I would probably put in a different rear skid aswell as the trails around here will only get as fast as the river once in a while (usually early mornings).

So, I'm sorry for ya but go ahead and do it with my blessing but make sure there are tuning forks on the skid you install. An RX1 skid should be perfect. I have an 03 and it's rear ride would be a very good match with the Vmax-4's front. Just don't go too far as there is only so much to work with up front and the last thing you need is to have a$$ in control of where you are headed.

Good Luck, opsled.

PS, I'll explain my thoughts further later but a fish fry and a Manhatten awaits me.

[8BU]

I had an 87 exciter back in the early 90's. got a 96 XT 600 and couldn't believe the better ride with the first generation proaction. Then got my 97 Vmax4 and felt like it road better with the heavier sled. I would beat the crap out of myself pounding moguls on the trails in my area and the U.P. for the next ten thousand miles. Now trail and lake or open field are different things. The frickin goat paths in my area you're probably averaging 30 to 35 miles an hour with the ocasional blast across a 80 acre field. A couple year ago i got a 95 with a M-10 in it. Never rode it at 121" I extended it to 144" and put a used 1" lug cat track on it. I can get about 115 on the speedo on hard pack. The ride or bump quality totally blows my 97 out of the snow. Turning is no different with the execption that its hard to slide in a corner. And it beats my budies Nytro. I wish I would have put an M-10 in years ago. Maybe i wouldn't have needed back surgery five years ago!

[tyler540]

yep this isnt the land of lakes like you guys have... we go fast in fields.... and 18" of snow is ALOT! (but the last few years we have been getting that easy)